Coolest, yet most difficult monsters to use?

[thedungeondelver]

Thread over in DF got me thinking about good monsters and bad monsters and monsters that are difficult to DM and I thought I'd weigh in on the topic...

Firstly, I'd say the NPC-as-opponent (aside from a straight fighter), especially when armed with magic items. I've bungled DMing more should-have-been-greater-challenges than I care to think of, all because I forgot this bonus, that spell or the other magic item.

The next would be likewise enabled NPC deities. It's easy to say "so-and-so god waves his hand, you all die except those who save for half of 1500d6", but playing them fairly, that's another matter. Difficult in the extreme.

Psionic creatures - mind flayer, especially. Second place, yuan-ti.

The rakshasha - probably easy to put it under the "NPC as opponent" due to their massive flexibility.

Powerful undead - starting with the dreadful juju zombie and moving up to the spectre, then the lich.

Dragons with spell abilities.

Anyone else?

[Falconer]

I would have to say Balrogs and Nazgûl. I daresay there are “tougher” monsters out there, but nothing that can quite so scare the wits and freeze the bones out of the players as these famous nasties.

The trick is living up to their reputation. They have to be so bad-ass that players who are brave enough to stand up to them in a straight, toe-to-toe mêlée combat will absolutely have their asses handed to them. In my AD&D campaign, after some initial fright, the players made quick work of a Balrog. Not cool!

On the other hand, the players have to have a fair chance at escaping—turning the Nazgûl, for example—and even at defeating a foe, given the proper magic and courage. The OD&D and AD&D writeups don’t quite do them justice... Regards.

[thedungeondelver]

Balrog = Type V Demon; Nazgul = ? Wraiths?

[Dagger]

High level spell casters are the toughest for me. It's so hard to remember every effect they have going on, their magic items, etc... Anymore when I run an NPC spell caster, I sort of write up a little gambit for them when I'm generating them. That way I have a cheat sheet for how they will use their spells/items in combat.

[Piper]

Nilbogs: they require a high degree of DM adjudication and the potential for bad decisions is quite high.

[Falconer]

Balrog = Type V Demon; Nazgul = ? Wraiths?

In OD&D, Balrog = Balrog; Nazgûl = Spectre (explicitly, except in the latest editions).

[Rikitiki]

FWIW: To help in dealing with NPC's, especially ones with spells, items, etc - When you 'detail' an NPC for game use, either as an intregal part of your module or an off-the-shelf one, jot down a 3-column-chart for the NPC.

Simply, 3 vertical-columns headed 'Negative', 'Neutral', and 'Positive'. Then, in each column under the appropriate heading, bullet-point in escalating order what pertinent words (dialogue, monologue), spells, item-use, etc, the NPC will utilize depending on reaction to the party.

Reaction stance could, of course, change due to 'Charm' spells, treasure offers, etc.

[Abacus Ape]

Morkoth. Really neat idear, but vague enough to force the DM to come up with a personal interpretation of the description in order to pull it off (which is awesome facet of AD&D in my opinion).

Intellect Devourer. Seems to be a real juggernaut in combat what with it's wierd immunities and ability to attack physically whilst also attacking psionically. But to really use the monster right(in my opinion), a DM has to get really subtle and bring out the paranoia of the players, which for me is way harder than running a straight up combat.

[grodog]

In no particular order:

• drow (lots of spell-like abilities, poisons, MR, and non-magical magical weapons to boot)
• beholders (which eyes do they have, which get hit in combat, how many can come into play at once, etc.)
• demons/devils/daemons/etc. (lots of at-will abilities, including the ones I am most likely to forget---the standard demonic/devilish abilities like darkness, possession, teleport, etc.; funky MR for deamons; magical weapons to be be hit; high intelligence and multiple attacks [sometimes])
• large humanoid tribes or other bodies of troops (the sheer logistics of them)

[Falconer]

Yeah, Drow are a major bitch to play correctly. They are very intelligent, very proficient in spells and have all kinds of innate magical abilities too. They always seem to have magical weapons and crazy artifacts such. And they always seem to come in groups of, like, 9 females and 7 males, lesser priestesses, an EHP'ss... Gah!

And they’re just not worth it, since their coolness factor has gone down majorly since they aren’t by any stretch of the imagination new or astonishing anymore. Regards.

[greygriffin20]

drow.... can be annoying in groups, to much stuff they can do

my main red and blue dragons and beholders
these three have too much potential as fair as abilities to not know when a parties comeing so they we allways be prepared, monsters with magic that have fore notice of what there fighting would have a base idea of what to do
(ie red dragon knows the parties comeing the group has two clerics,magic user, ranger two fighters and a dwarf (whose armor is leather so the dragon assumes theif) the room before his chambers (which is a 20 by 20by ten size room)he places two lighting based traps (the dragon assumes that the party knows hes a red and figured the clerics would have placed protections from fire) he orders his undead under his comand (specters in this case to attack when the trap is sprung or when it is found) this holds the clerics at bay..... at this point he casts darkness on the doors to his chambers and makes his lowest level henchmen bust down the door (triggering the second trap shooting lightning at the weak henchmen and theif (if not other players) then he has his second wave of henchmen run into the room thus focusing the fighters, ranger and mage on this attack, next round he casts invisibilty on a (thief, assasin, lightly armoredfighter with the orders to take out the mage) the dragon then waits 6 rounds listening at as the battle progresses if the outcome seems to be in his favor he waits if it seems his men are loseing he moves towards the door and breaths his breath weapon.
this is how i would base intellegent monsters the ....problem is how would this look to your players

[Wheggi]

Intellect devourers are a pain to run effectively. They're what I like to call a finesse monster.

Same could be said for the rakshasa.

The lecrotta is a hard sell: who is ever going to fall for the whole 'damsel in distress' bit?

Doppelgangers can also be hard to sell, simply because adventurers by their very nature are a suspicious lot.

- Wheggi

[Gray Mouser]

The lecrotta is a hard sell: who is ever going to fall for the whole 'damsel in distress' bit?

Heh, it worked in my last campaign and the players were old schoolers from way back. Sounds of a woman and baby crying along with the voices of what were obviously highwaymen bent on doing them grave injury coming form beyond the tree line led to the party getting ambushed by a small group of Leucrotta. Not only did they lure the party in with the old trick (which I thought would never work) but they also were hiding and managed to surprise the party for a couple of segments

The PCs were victorious but hurting after the encounter. Fortunately they got a bit of loot as well as a magic sword out of the deal.

Gray Mouser

[Algolei]

Goblins. I just can't keep them alive long enough for their backstories to become relevant.

[genghisdon]

Quite a few of the good monsters like Ki-rin, Couatyl, Lammasu, Shedu, Titans, Devas, Planetars & Solar; many of these are just as tough or worse than deities to run. A thread at DF really anoyed me, people couldn't come up with feasable ways to kill a Solar with COMPLETE ACCESS to it's abilities. I'm sure 99.9% of Solar Fatalities in games were cheap. I hope Gary Stat-ed them up to laugh at folks claiming to kill them.

The FF has been underrepresented so far: Githzerai & Githyanki are more complex than most NPC's their level, higher up Slaadi; Kuo-toa & Svirfneblin have lots to remember + class ability.

I'd add Duergar & Derro alongside the Drow

Shades are a goddamn nightmare if you try to think it all through as spellchuckers(what happens to fluctuating int or wisdom & spell use? Aeeeii!)

[thedungeondelver]

Shades are tough, as are derro. Spriggans are a hard bunch to beat, too.

(Incidentally? In Oblivion (computer game) Spriggans are sexy girl/treant things (with a hate on for you and a penchant for summoning black bears to kick your ass)).

Anything, essentially, with a layer of powers that extends beyond one or two can be a real handful to DM.

Now I've had some fun with Drow, in the past, particularly in G1 (they showed up when the party was really putting the screws to Nosnra & Co.)

Having them reanimating dead giants and tossing lightning bolts down on the party, summoning Manes and other ugly bastards in to do some fighting...that was loads of fun!

[genghisdon]

Sure are.

I add many defenses/resistances and psionics to your multiple powers/spells. Ignoring/forgetting defenses/Immunities seems to really be the most common flaw for some DM's

I like running the more complex monsters(most anyway), it's more akin to playing characters.

Spriggans as tree womenfolk? Never saw that one coming

[thedungeondelver]

Yep! Here's a shot of what they look like: